The Twelve Tribes in The News

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Friday, February 1, 2008

This article is an online conversation with the Sister in the “Story about a Brother and Sister”.

I wrote this the form of a article because I started to reply to Cindy and it became more than a comment could hold. Let me start with Cindy's comment and then my response.



Cindy said...

"It is ironic how situations, circumstances, FACTS, get missconstrude and miss communicated when the one communicating has been offended in some way. The only thing one can realy communicate in that state is the offensive atittude. This is the case with the story of a brother and sister... I don't know who you are or where you gathered your imformation from but I know enough of the story to know you are talking about me, my husband and my brother and your facts are way off. All I hear in your version of this tragedy is that, a trajedy. Yet it is not truth. And if you want the truth I can give it to you> But I don't think you realy do. It seems to me that you are out to make something look realy bad that in fact was not bad at all. In reality the "story" you published was slanderous and not factual. I do not know the what has offended you but i do know that if it is something someone in the community has done i am sure if you can find forgiveness in your heart than you would be able to communicate and get this thing settled. I know Yoneq, and have for 21 years now. Even in the state which my family has been in for the past year and a half (we have been functiong apart from the tt for that long because of issues with our children that we are bringing healing to) all he has communicated to me and my children is hope and encouragement. My children (ages 21 down to 8) all love the heart of that man and the life in the tt. We are all looking forward to returning and building up what is there! I only ask you to remove the story from your sight as it in no was represents our entry into the community. It realy missrepresents both my husband and myself completely! I have written this knowing you have the right as the author to do what you wish with my comment. Yet i will take legal action if you print this in any way that makes the community look worse than you already have. I find it a sad thing that someone would have to spend the rest of his life (being an older man and all) trying to slander someone who doesn't even know that they have offended you. If you, in fact, realy do love Yoneq and would "serve side by side with him "if he would only "repent" then it seems as though you would want to cover this transgression, because true love covers his brothers transgression, and even bares it to his own hurt. That is the way of Messiah. Oh by the way my brother doesn't consider your relationship as a dear friendship, as he only met you for the first time 4 days ago when you called and asked him for a place to stay. Get the story right!"

My Response -

Qetsiyah - Thank you for taking the time (and having patience with the technology) to respond to this story. You are right, this story is about you, your husband Yacob and your brother Billy. I am very sorry if it offends you. I stated in the story that most of the facts about you and your husband were given to me by your brother a number of years ago. I tried to capture and represent them as honestly and accurately as possible. I even had your brother read the story while I was staying with him and he did not contradict anything he read. This may have given me the false impression that it was 100% accurate. I would be more than happy to edit the story and make corrections regarding you and Yacob’s story if you were to provide these to me (either directly at VOOCITD@gmail.com or through your brother if that makes you more comfortable. I unlike Keli, will not attempt to “track you down” using your emails as I mean you no harm at all. There are things about Yacob that I know that I could have published but chose not to (and I will not under any circumstance) because they would only work towards destroying his character, and that is not my intent. You may not believe it, but I truly love you, Yacob and your children (you have 7 now?).

You say that all you hear in the story is a tragedy. I agree with you. No matter how, you edit the story it will be similar to 100's of others were a wife leads her husband into a thought reform group for whatever reason. The husband should be the head of the household. Your story is not unique. Change the names and dates and I can provide testimonies from many couples where the same thing happened. I hope some of these can find the courage to leave at least an anonymous "amen" to this. You should ask yourself, why so many wives enter the TT before their husbands, and so many men leave the TT before their wives (I know there are exceptions to this but if you saw the statistical numbers you would know the truth). I submit, the reason for this is because the true honor and authority of a husband is constantly usurped by TT leadership. Yacob is a perfect example. He is a good man who loves God, loves his wife and loves his children. He is a hard worker and a humble man. Yet he has been repeatedly slandered by the TT leadership and demeaned in the eyes of his peers, his wife and his children. Again, you two are not unique in this. It is my belief that the issues you are having with your children are due to the fact they have a hard time respecting their father because his position and authority and character have been repeatedly been brought into question. As a wife, you to must have struggled with your relationship with him. I do not say this because I have any special insight into your heart but because this is a common and repeatable “tragedy” that occurs in the TT. I am not trying to destroy you or Yacob, just the opposite, I hope to build you up and encourage you.

Whether you want to admit it or not, you are still under the thought control of the TT. I know a dear man who has been out of the TT for almost 10 years now and only two years ago, he stopped defending the practices of the TT even though he was dismissed and discarded by them. He now sees the group for what it is, a coercive controlling organization. You will call this slander and judge his and my “attitude” but it is simply the truth. At least it is my truth and that of 100’s of people who have left and of that of psychological experts who have studied the TT. And just because you do not agree, does not make it untrue or slanderous.

On that point. The TT calls any negative report on them “slander”. This is a coercive tactic in itself. It is meant to put fear of legal reprisal into the person who is practicing their freedom of speech. The TT may disregard the laws and freedoms of this country, and their members may submit and obey without question, but those of us who have found true freedom know our rights.

You say you are “functioning apart from the TT”. In real-world language and even in the Twelve Tribes this is called being “cut-off”. Don’t sugar coat it. Other coercive thought reform groups call this being shunned. It is a common practice among these type of groups. You are not unique either within the TT or in the real world where other controlling groups manipulate lives.

Up until this point, I have been talking about things that I am aware of that have already happened to you that I say are not unique to you. You think I am a liar, slanderer, and someone out to destroy the TT or Yoneq. Let me speak about things that I do not know about that may have happened to you or will happen to you in the future. What I am about to say, obviously is not specific to you because either I do not know or it hasn’t happened yet. I predict these things based on facts and testimonies of 100’s of other people who have gone through what you are and will experience. I only ask that if these predictions are or do come true that you engage your mind and think for yourself without internally condemning yourself for doubting.

Probable Past Events
  • You were sent out because you did not have control of your children.
  • When you were sent out you were not given much resources to survive, maybe about 1 month’s rent and some spending money and a poorly running vehicle (if you were lucky). You may have been like many who only got $100-$200 and a bag of rice and your external family had to pick you up and take care of you.
  • While you are out, you have been visited by people who give you a good report on how you are doing but then they give the TT a bad report which then leads to you having to stay cut-off for an extended amount of time.
Probable Future Events
  • If you do well on the outside, i.e. start up your own business, you start to gain favor from the TT who eventually will want to take this business over. Mark my word, when this happens once again Yacob will be cut-down in character, someone else will be given control of the business and you will be right back where you were to begin with.
  • More than likely, you have been building up a mountain of debt to survive and build your business. When you return, the TT will promise to take on this debt and cover it for you. However, in reality they will ignore it and it will ruin your credit.
  • Therefore, the next time you are cut-off or you decide on your own to leave, you will have bad credit and it will be impossible to survive without the generousity of family and friends if they are still speaking to you. This is done by design to make you even more dependant on the thought/behavior control group

Cindy, I do not say the things that I have said on this site and to you in this letter because I have been offended by you or any true believer in the Twelve Tribes. I say these things because in my heart I believe them to be true. I confess that at times I can be sarcastic and even angry in my tone. However, if you believed what I believe would you not be angry that people that you love and miss terribly are being psychologically manipulated and controlled and systematically having their lives destroyed. Even Yeshua became angry at those who defiled His temple to make a buck. How much more would he be angry seeing what I see happening within the Twelve Tribes while the businesses of the Twelve Tribes pull in multi-millions of dollars each year on the backs of slave labor.

You do not see this like I and others have. There are men who were responsible for the books and the leadership who are first hand witnesses of this. Even if Yoneq chose to spend all these millions of dollars on setting up new communities and businesses without stashing away a penny, it is still abuse and only further builds his own kingdom on earth. This is part of the sin that I feel this man should repent from.

I truly hope you can hear my heart, even if you feel I am misguided or don’t want to hear what I have to say. It is not out of hatred or destruction that I speak. It is in my heart to see the restoration of the lives of those within the community and those who have left. These are good people like you who sincerely love God and want to see Messiah return, but they have been oppressed, have lost their voice and have been abused by leaders who obviously are not under God’s anointing. If they were, they would see what is happening and act accordingly. Instead, repeatedly, the innocent are “cut-off” while the guilty are given more power and position and praise to hurt even more of us.

I’m not sure of all the specifics of your situation, however, this is the experience of more and more people who have had the courage to speak up (there are many more who have not). These are people like you who were cut-off or kicked out of the TT or chose to leave. Another common practice of the Moonies, the Church of Scientology, the Mormons, the JW's is to slander and dismiss those who leave. So you are now thinking in your mind (they are people who didn't have what it took, or gave themselves over to Satan, or where not saved to begin with). These are all thoughts you have been given by the TT so you will not hear our VOICES. So we don't have a voice inside the community and we don't have a voice outside.

If you see any of this as true, then you would have to agree, there is a need for a change in the Government which would require a humbling of the hearts of its leaders. This would have to start with Yoneq and work its way down. I am Voice, I speak for those who have no Voice. Where is the life of Messiah? Is it a life of oppression? Is it a life of fear of being cut-off? Is it a life where husbands are constantly degraded in the eyes of their wives and children? Is it a life of position where some have power and money and others have nothing?

Sorry for being so verbose, but then again, I am Voice.



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23 comments:

divine interuption said...

Cindy-
You say that Yoneg doesn't even know that he has offended Voice, and that may be true but my question to you is HAS YONEG EVER "REPENTED" TO YOUR BROTHER? Surely he KNOWS that he has offended him, and everything that he stands for. Considering that he claims to have the HOLY SPIRIT and be the self proclaimed ELIJAH he certainly has quite the human temper and it got the better of him. So much so that he was compelled to burn the word of God. I know non-believers who wouldn't dare such an act, would you? Could you burn the word of God without even flinching?
--divine interuption

nabashalam said...

Qetsiyah's response is a picture perfect example of the "Stockholm Syndrome". Defending the abuser, even while she still suffers from that abuse!

I also know Yacob and Qetsiyah personally and have seen the receive the exact abuses that Voice describes.

I have also seen the beaten down look on Qetsiyah's face and demeanor that she wore daily. You could see a strong, faithful woman who had been frazzled down to a mental case on the edge of collapse. Yet she praises Yoneq and the Tribes and longs for her return. These are classic "battered spouse syndrome" sypmtoms.

I pray she finds "real" help and not some more scriptural lip service from the Tribes or from any "Holy Man" for that matter...

panterus said...

sounds like you wanted power and money and didn't get any!

nabashalam said...

If I were looking to obtain money and power, the last place in the world I would go looking is the TT!

Do not pursue what is illusory - property and position: all that is
gained at the expense of your nerves decade after decade and can be
confiscated in one fell night. Live with a steady superiority over life -
don't be afraid of misfortune, and do not yearn after happiness; it is
after all, all the same: the bitter doesn't last forever, and the sweet
never fills the cup to overflowing.
- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

panterus said...

found a new prophet have we? where's cindy by the way?

panterus said...

i guess thats not really what the twelve tribes is really about, you know passing out money and power and all that, so its a good thing you didn't look there!

panterus said...

if you've never seen an overflowing cup, why was it that you joined the tribes in the first place, isn't that what they proclaim to be part of the fruit? isn't that what drew you there?

nabashalam said...

Who the heck is Cindy? And just because I quote someone it does not make them a prophet let alone "my prophet"!

I was drawn to the Tribes because I saw it as a way to pay penance for my sins and to devote my life to whoever had kept me alive to that point.

So why are you looking to fight with me? I'm sorry to disappoint you but I have given up on those self destructive ways...

panterus said...

it seems like voice was conversating with cindy and apperently she wasn't having a conversation with him. as for you don't you think it's self desructive sit around and bad mouth and slander people who actually seem like very nice people to me! i'm not here to fight with you either this just what i see when i look at this site!

nabashalam said...

Could you point out specifically where you see slander?

All I see is Voice trying to help Cindy look at her situation and experiences from a different angle.

It's so true what they say about the Tribes or other high control groups..." It's hard to see the whole picture when your inside the frame..."

All voice has is love and compassion and empathy for those who have been damaged by the Tribes. He actually still has family members and loved ones still in the Tribes like a lot of us do...

panterus said...

i can see this whole site is full of slander even when someone says they see thing differently, whether in the community or not, they are called liars or idiots or blind by the other posters on the site. if you can't see anybody elses perspective and yet you claim to be open to it, who then is really being delusional. i've read many accounts from current members on this site who say that their life in the communities don't reflect your statements. if that is the case then maybe it was you who created the patterns you saw around, that may just be an assumption but it seems a likely one. know one i know has ever seen such behavior from anyone that stays in the tribes, but only from the ones who leave. the people we have seen remain here in our town reflect good moral standards and a high degree of self dicipline that reflects in their work and outgoing relationships. its no wonder that thes people have such large and growing businesses all of which seem to reflect and integrity of character that is lasting. i've never seen people dissatified with the quality of their work or their character unless they were holding some kind of personal grudge against people that they think are just different. it seems to me from reflecting on this that you and these others may have created your own opinion of the doings and dealings of the community and differ from their so you decided to create conflict over whatever subjects and faults that you see from your perspective. the community seems to operate based on a group perspective of things and that individual perspective is overridden by the group, at least until or if the individuals perspective affect the WHOLE group enough that a change is made. apparently you and these others could not agree with that concept and it overwhelmed your state of mind, causing you to think more persistently that you were right. in a gruop or team this does not play well and never has in any case i have ever seen. if ba basketball player decides to go out on his own and changes play from the rest of the team he is ussually swamped by the opposing team immediatly, unless of course nhe just famous or immpossibly good and even then he becomes alone and would even begin to look down on his "teammates". most people would call that self rightous. nothing personal you understand that just what it looks liked from a braod perspective. maybe i'm wrong.

Anonymous said...

"that just what it looks liked from a braod perspective. maybe i'm wrong."

"MAYBE" you're wrong?
You admit to making assumptions.

MAYBE then this whole site ISN'T full of slander..."if you can't see anybody elses perspective" then maybe you're not getting the whole perspective, huh?

What current member would DARE say anything negative about the TT on this site? And everyone seen outside the community had BETTER be on their best behavior!Banishment is serious-financially, emotionally, mentally...spiritually.

"...you and these others may have created your own opinion of the doings and dealings of the community..." At least their opinions are from first-hand, inside knowledge.

The group does NOT operate on a group perspective --I have no idea where you gathered that moss -- it operates on one individual's perspective (and I won't even do him the dignity of mentioning his name).

If you want to use a basketball analogy, consider "that guy" as the coach. He calls the plays and decides who will play and who sits on the bench, and who runs laps for defying his rules.

Consider for a moment you aren't "maybe wrong" --but truly ARE Wrong.

(I cannot tell you my name - b/c I am a woman and more vulnerable to the TT tactics. Sorry if that bothers you.)

panterus said...

who said i didn't have inside knowledge? do you know me? i understand you have opinions, so do i.

Anonymous said...

Panter:
You call your comments "opinions" so that you can keep any belief you want. Very well. You may remain opinionated, and uneducated.

Bill said...

Panterus - Check one:
__You either are a current member and therefore you are being deceptive talking as if you are not

__ You are not a current member and therefore talk from ignorance.

So which is it? Are you a liar or just stupid?

panterus said...

check this, i have been a member and i still hope to be i'm trying to get over my selfish feelings on certain subjects that are usually pertaining to my self and not others like most of what i see on this site. i like to leave it to others to make choices in THEIR LIVES instead of ridiculing them for what they wish to accomplish. I hope that that me speaking from an honest and somewhat knowledgable background with the coomunity is acceptable to you. I've been around the community for about 10 years and from what I see the people IN the community have an honest love for the ways of our Father regardless of what it LOOKS LIKE in the middle of a circumstance. I heard many allegations of mischief and debauchery on this website acussing the brothers of wickedness and perversity none of which seem provable or in many cases plausable. What I HAVE seen IN the community is repentance and perserverance through many troubling situations for the sake of the greater goal, the kingdom, which seems in all cases more important than today suffering, struggle, or discomfort. The things I HAVE seen on this web site are complaints for every purpose and a lack of strength in character, both of which are first gates to selfish thinking. I am no propaganda artist and know what one is, my dad worked hand in hand with the CIA and the ARMY INTELLIGENCE CORPS for over 20 years, I'm a man like any other that likes to see other men overcome their personal quandries in life and show others to do the same, because it just makes everybody's life better, and that just happens to be pleasing to our father. I have my struggles when I get told that I'm being selfish by someone who seems more selfish than I am, and whom i could say all kinds of nasty garbage about, but its more like a man to buck up take it in the gut and show that man that I'm capable of making something more of myself as well! hows that for substance?

Bill said...

Now you are providing some substance. Your previous posts were just darts and flaming arrows. Now you are being honest instead of speaking like an outsider looking in.

You say this site is full of slander because it portrays one opinion and is not "open" to other opinions. And then you go about stating how wrong Voice's opinion is, and David's is and you attack David.

I would prefer you just be honest and say, "I am a former member who has been excommunicated due to my selfishness. I am hoping to gain favor from the TT or at least still feel a part of them by defending them on the web."

You may not agree with that statement. In any case, you seem to be hoping to be allowed to return or for some reason you personally are unable to return on your own and yet you feel it appropriate to criticize others who have lived there and don't share your desire to return.

Blogs are for discussion, not just criticism. If you feel the TT is a healthy place to live and worship, then provide proof or experiences that supports your opinion. David and Voice have shared their experiences and data that raise some serious questions.

panterus said...

as far as this site goes i am an outsider looking in! the reason i say these thing is because thats what i see. as far as proof goes the proof is in the puddin'! most people that leave have similar accusations, those accusations are genarally generated by self consideration. people who can look past their own perception generally attain to greater accomplishment in their lives than bickering and complaining about how unfairly they were treated. i remember when i first started lifting weights in school, i thought it was very unfair that other boys had the opportunity to lift weights outside of school before the rest us, giving them the right to "look back" at me and point out my faults, very unfair, right. it wasn't until one of those boys "looking back" sat down with me a told me he had been the same way until he learned better techniques and applied them. that showed me that i should receive the critical remarks and or "rude behavior" of the others as encouragement to increase and wound up gaining the most in weights that semester. doesn't that sound better than critisizing them for their actions and turning away to failure! i admit freeley that i did not attain to all things in the community that doesn't i won't "scrub up" and try again. you know, receive my dicipline!

nabashalam said...

Panterus, or should I call you Nazir of Boston!

You show the classical symptoms of the "battered spouse syndrome" along with the "Stolkholm syndrome". Defending the abuser and wanting to return to an unhealthy relationship.
And being raised as a "military brat" with no roots helped in you finally finding the "place to belong".

Ive been right where your at and even posted a sincere letter of apology and repentance to the TT on factnet 4 years ago...

I pray you snap out of it and quit trying to return to your own puke...

panterus said...

i think i met Nazir once, but he doesn't live in Manitou Springs!

panterus said...

it seems you have all the excuses written out and try to find who a person is just so you can can berate them more specifically that they might turn away in defeat and perhaps even join your complaint circle. maybe they will even have a juicy way of explaining things so you can twist it into an accusation.few people attain to the truth and most people complain when they don't it seems, but people who overcome their deficiancies grow stronger because of it. self pity does not create heathy growth in a man. puke..ugh..puke..unghh...wheh.. i hope that came out right.

robshed said...

shoot the fucking lot of them ...assholes ...beating children
what ate we doing in this 21st. centuary
this lot are just stupid .
but we are supposed to live eith them amongst us .
I would say no ..yo get real you wankers and wisecup.
wecdo not want you ..like this

David Pike said...

Yeesh! It's been years since this thread was alive. Panterus...no matter who you are or were in the tribes I am praying you got over their mind control while you were cut off, which was plain to see when you were posting here... No matter where you are, I hope you find or have found peace and are moving on... I have... And if your up to date on current TT affairs you see that the authorities are all over them in Europe like a hound on a coon... and I assume it wont be long till this happens in the Americas and Australia.Their day of reckoning has come... The European authorities have revived the IP Raid and have done it right thanks to a reporter in Germany... Thanks Wolfram! You are a hero to countless people then you know... :)

For my German Speaking Visitors

Follow this link to review a presentation made by Leipzig student Florian Böhnhardt.

Boehnhardt Zwoelf Staemme 2007

For my French Speaking Visitors

Interesting news article concerning the Sus House (castle) and controversy in France with the Twelve Tribes.

Entre bric à brac et vie de château, les drôles d'apôtres de l'Ordre Apostolique... (Tabitha's Place)


Click on the following link to get a wealth of information from an Anti-Cult Site in France

http://www.prevensectes.com/tabitha.htm

News Reel-1 on Tabitha's Place

News Reel-2 on Tabitha's Place


Place a checkmark beside all items that characterize the group in question. If you check many of these items, and particularly if you check most of them, you might consider examining the group more closely.

The above check list comes from Dr. Michael Langone, editor of Cultic Studies Journal, and often characterize manipulative groups. Dr. Langone suggest prospective recruits and family members compare these statements to the group. If one or more of these apply to your group you may have a cause for concern. I say, if all apply as in the case of the Twelve Tribes, you should repent (turn 180 degrees) and run.

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Yoneq 2004

I dedicate this song to Yoneq and the elders of the TT


Elbert Eugene Spriggs

Ok - This one is a little angry, but therapeutic just the same

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