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Tuesday, January 29, 2008

Open Letter to Keli (alias Michael Markuson) of the TT Parchment Press

Keli – I extended the virtual “right hand of fellowship” to you in responding to your email questions and you abused this offer. You have been trained well by your oppressors. Here is your fruit so that you and others may judge the character of the Twelve Tribes:

  • You send me an email under your pre-tribe name (Michael Markuson) and from an optimum online email id ( ). This leads me to think one of two things:

1. You are either afraid to admit you are with the Twelve Tribes but you wanted to take a stab at me with your question? or

2. You were being outright deceitful and did not want me to know you are with the Twelve Tribes.

So which is it, do you have a spirit of fear or deceit? Why didn’t you use your tribe email account to send the question (

  • You ignore my request to remain anonymous for the obvious reason that I do not want repercussion from the TT for being able to speak my opinion. It is a common cult practice to slander anyone who leaves or talks against the cult. The TT has this one down to an art form.
  • After I request you only communicate with me on my website or on Factnet, you send me repeated emails attempting to discover my personal information and location.
  • You are a hypocrite. One example of this is your membership in ChristianSource Free Software and Linux Users Group. Nothing wrong with that right? Well, let’s dig a little deeper. To become a member, you had to complete the following form . Within this form you agreed to the following term: We ask that you would please read through and accept our Statement of Faith before joining. This statement of faith is located at the following URL Therefore, after denouncing your faith in Christ and Christianity in order to become “emersed” (baptized) in the Twelve Tribes, you have just renounced your faith in Christianity to get “Free Stuff”. And you state Christians are hypocritical! It looks like once again, another member of the TT is actively practicing Yoneq’s teaching on lying.
  • You are a hypocrite – You created and published the following cartoon and movie on YouTube criticizing Christians and Christianity while your manipulative thought reform group are absolutely no different.
Twelve Tribes Media Cartoon titled "Die Heretic Scum"

You show a Christian kicking another Christian off a bridge because they don’t believe the exact same creed? So that is what you think of a Christian preacher? You are no different in your condemnation of all Christianity? Your cult believes all Christians are going to the Lake of Fire for eternity because they refuse to submit to your manipulative mind control tactics and believe your self proclaimed Apostle, Prophet and Elijah, Elbert Eugene Spriggs twisted teachings. Most of these teachings he picked and chose from various Christian and non-Christian denominations. Not that I agree with your perception of Christians wanting to kill each other (sick) but do you think that is worse than condemning them to eternal suffering which is what the TT do?

By the way, that Harlot movie was very well done. It had to have cost a great deal of money to produce. The wealth used to produce this movie was made off the backs of the free slave labor your members and their children provide to Yoneq and his band of elders. Finally, what exactly do you mean by the ending statement?:

"Why do the people with the "right" doctrine persecute and kill the people with the "wrong" doctrine and not the other way around?

You have put this statement on many of your written documents as well. Are you proposing, persecuting and killing Christians next? I don't mean to be an alarmist, but, coercive control groups such as yours have done much worse. So maybe an alarm needs to be raised?

Keli - Your name used to be Michael which meant "Who can be like God" but the Twelve Tribes did not want you to have that identity, instead they gave you the name Keli, which means "Vessel". I'm sure they gave you some good explanation for this change. My opinion is they wanted you to become an empty vessel so they could fill you with the poison of their teachings and then control you. Have true strength like the Angel and think for yourself and see what you have become a part of.

And if you want to reply, use the comment button below not email because I can no longer trust that you will not further attempt to infect my computer.


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Anonymous said...

Wow!! Oh what a tangled web we weave when we practice to decieve! Keli, how great that you have come back to Christianity, your family must be so relieved. Good luck on that terrorism charge though. I hope the Shepards learn to manage thier flock better. Voice, if you need a place to stay my door is always open, your work here is important, bring your own computer though.

Anonymous said...

Voice has been criticized for sounding angry and using sarcasm when talking about the Twelve Tribes. I have to ask, then what about that cartoon? It sounds bitter, arrogant and talk about sarcasm! It is very hypocritical when you consider the TT and its differences with other communal faith based groups. They all are "Living the Life" which they present as "proof" that they are the only ones "saved" or with the Holy Spirit. If that is the proof, then why don't they accept other faith based communal groups?

Anonymous said...

i think cristians have been killing each other since the dawn of christianity and under that famous statement "I am the church" it is not so far fetched to beleive cristians may do that again. constantines church has an overwhelming history of death murder and hatred of those who have a different creed. I wonder myself what their next step is. why is that christians kill people they wish to beleive have the wrong doctrine? why are they so insistent that their doctrine is right? are they perhaps defensive because they know their doctrine is wrong and they don't like other to find out? perhaps they think it is their right as cristians to kill the heretic although christ himself said that any man who sheds blood is not my servant. i don't really think their statements are so far fetched as you are portraying.

Anonymous said...

by the way i don't think keli seems very interested in what you have to say because he hasn't said anything for 4 months maybe you should call him!

nabashalam said...

So panterus, Would you care to tell us who you are? Ex-member? Current member? Keli?

Actually, Voice has been MIA for almost two months! He doesnt return my private emails anymore...
Maybe he is what a ex-associate of mine called him when he first appeared on the scene 6 months ago..."A Firecracker"!

Goes off like a bang, makes alot of noise then fades away back into obscurity... Actually he was quite shrewed in staying anonymous! He can disappear and no one would know..."Who was that masked man?"

Anonymous said...

you are awfully accenuative and picky for some one who uses a false name yourself. i am who i am and this is just my perspective. i'm sure you can respect that.

Anonymous said...

speaking of false name prophet or bringer of peace or whatever, is what you call your self yet you stir up discord all over the place, why?

nabashalam said...

You sure don't know me very well. I have always been completely open with my true identity! Everyone in the different TT circles know this! My real Name is David T. Pike, the Tribes gave me the name of Daveed Yathed(meaning loving tent stake). I used ex-yathed after I left the Tribes and then gave myself my current fabricated Hebrew name of Nabashalam which when translated correctly means "I prophecy my own restoration/recovery" My recovery of my latest addiction. The addiction of the Twelve Tribes.

I have posted my home address, email address and phone number all over the net. If speaking the Gods honest truth sows discord, then so be it!

I do not slander others either! Slander involves lies. I challenge you to show me any instance were I told a lie!

So when you use the word slander, I suggest you review your own words...

Anonymous said...

i guess the twelve tribes truth sowed discord in you so be it!! do you have to bellyache all day about it?

Anonymous said...

"you are awfully accenuative and picky for some one who uses a false name yourself."
You are wrong about that.
"i am who i am and this is just my perspective. i'm sure you can respect that."
Wrong is who you are and I don't respect that. No guts or character is the name of one who falsely accuses others of what he's doing. Cowards run away and come back under a different identity. They aren't held accountable and fear man but the creator of all knows all.

David stirrs up discord if you are afraid of your own demons. He doesn't make the discord. It isn't coming from in him.

The twelve tribes has some truth and so does christianity but it's tainted. The Holy Spirit doesn't work through the unholy.

Anonymous said...

PS My name is Doug Ribot. It didn't go through so I put anonymous

Anonymous said...

i guess that he does stir up discord because it is in him to do so. i was just making observations on what i see and that is what i see, sorry if that troubles you.

Anonymous said...

People have been killing people since the dawn of time! There is no reason to pin it all on Christians --- people use religions, governments, philosophies … to justify their wars. Every “tribe” has ways of believing their way is right, and the “others’ way” is wrong, and even dangerous, and must be banished from the face of the earth.
The TT is participating in the very thing for which they condemn other (Christian) sects… especially that ”harlot” of all Christian churches, the Catholic. To take a phrase from the FLDS in South Dakota… it’s better to kill the unsaved (and burn their bodies to ash) than to let them suffer eternal damnation. Next to them, I guess the TT doesn’t look so bad, now does it? God save us all, if TT becomes the aceptable standard upon which we base our religions.

Anonymous said...

"i guess that he (Pike) does stir up discord because it is in him to do so."

I think YOUR statement is a little far-fetched.

(I was just making an observation on what I see, and that is what I see, sorry if that troubles you.")

Anonymous said...

no trouble.

Anonymous said...

Nabashalam - Can I challenge you to consider the prophets? God gave them a specific message for a specific time. It didn't always make sense to the prophet or the people who heard the message. However, when looking at the "broader perspective" it made perfect sense.

I do not think Voice was a firecracker. He had a very specific message and I believe it was needed during this specific time. Only God will really know how this message has been used or will be used. Just consider how much the TT has recently been taking advantage of the internet. Voice's site was a preemptive strike.

I do not think Voice is coming back. He was working to get someone to take over his site and carry-on the message. I believe this was due to a bigger issue, not just because he wanted to "travel" as he had told me. He really didn't have the means to travel very far.

I am hoping the person he reached out to will "man-up" and take a stand and carry on the message/work.

If you are reading this, you know who you are.

nabashalam said...

Voice a prophet? Thats a little grandiose IMHO. More of a fact finding/researcher/historian and web designer.

Yes this site has and is a good example of fighting fire with fire but where's the beef? Where's the hands on help for those who leave the tribes due to this site?

What would happen if this site were to achieve it's ultimate goal and cause the TT to implode? Then what? What happens to the human wreckage?

One thing I dont agree with voice is that he seems to think his part is just to inform and get people to leave. But he always hinted to "showing them the WAY" which lead me to believe he wants to "save" these people and bring them to "Jesus". Like he wanted to travel from community to community like a tent revival and "save their souls". YUCK!

He was allusive much like yourself, with phrases like pre-emptive, traveling etc...

As a matter of fact you sound just like him and I wouldnt doubt it if you are!

I look forward to the day when Voice "man's up" and tells us who he is and what his plans are instead of all this cloak and dagger BS....

Anonymous said...

christian babble? maybe. well, Babble on, babble on!

Anonymous said...


You say grandiose? A prophet is one who has a message inspired by God. Voice does appear to have a faith in a higher being. Have you ever met him (if he is a him)? Do you know whether he would have the means to do what you want him to do (create a place or support structure for a mass exodus)? I don't recall seeing anything on this site stating the ultimate goal is to have the TT implode and create a mass exodus. You may have had offline conversations with Voice, but I don't see that anywhere on this site (maybe I missed it?). I had many offline conversations with him. He was often sick and said he "had a plan" to hand over this site to someone who could do much more with it than he had. He has not responded to my emails in a while which was out of character. I think there is a bigger problem. He often mentioned being old and not in good health. You may want to check your emotions and not become easily offended at his absence as it may be due to a larger health issue that he was not willing to disclose. Hopefully he will get well and return. My personal fear is he may not.

nabashalam said...

He must be deathly ill if he can't email a letter telling us what's going on with him. Or at least have someone do it for him!

It's sad that he would hide his maladies like his identity! THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO CARE ABOUT HIM!!! DOESN'T HE REALIZE THAT?

nabashalam said...

So the sole purpose of this site is to educate people interested in the TT and possibly joining?

I think it's doing a lot more then that! It's like someone decided to torch a crack house and ran away without offering help to those running out of the burning building!

nabashalam said...

I apologise for getting upset...

I just hate to see all Voices hard work go to seed...or weed...

Voice, If you can please email me and let me know your OK. Or if anyone else knows, please email me at

We are now officially worried...

Anonymous said...

maybe he just moved back in with thew tribes, eh?

nabashalam said...

And pass this site on to someone else to keep it going and leave this site up? I don't think so!

But here's a rumor for you! Voice has gone back into the tribes but not as a committed member but as a spy in the camp! He is gathering info, facts, names, dates and numbers so when the State Police raid this time, it will be by the book, charges will be levied and they will stick!

After the Island Pond raid and recently the FLDS raid in Texas, authorities will finally figure out how NOT to do it...

Anonymous said...

now that's ridiculous!

nabashalam said... could be closer to the truth then you think! Bill, who is running this site now, has no idea where he is or is not saying....

Did you know about the "Ha Emeq Affair" or that David Derush has left???

nabashalam said...

Here is the letter that came out a month or more ago and yes, it is 100% factual and true...It is written by Elahav (Tom Rivera) the head elder of the Ithaca Community who left in Nov of last year and it's about Yadutan, A lead elder in Brazil and a major player in the Mate business, who left the TT in Febuary or so...

Why Yadutan and Emunah left the Twelve Tribes...

"I have some information that for conscience sake I need to
let others know about. As some may have heard by now, I have
been working with Yadutan since he has moved to Florida
close to where I live. When I first left the community, I
heard that Yadutan had left the community as well, only
about 3 months before I did. I was curious to hear why. At
some point soon after, we spoke to one another and the
reasons he gave me were much along the same lines as to why
I left. Recently, he moved down to Florida near me and we
began working together in a home office situation. One day I
was working from his computer and I found myself staring at
an email that speaks of the main reason why he and his wife
left. Naturally, I confronted him about it and he told me
everything. His response was shocking to say the least.
Those of us who know Yadutan, know that he would not have
left lightly or on a whim, or just because he “loved the
world”. I was quite disturbed to
hear his reasons and after much deliberation I have
decided that I want my friends to have the opportunity to
know the truth about what happened, and decide for
themselves whether or not they want to continue to give
their lives to something that is not true.
Also…. before they actually left the community, Yadutan
and his wife went to Yoneq and Haemeq to resolve this issue
and were unable to get it resolved to their satisfaction.
This is it in a nutshell:
14 or so years ago …. Yadutan was approached somewhat
aggressively by Haemeq when he was a very young disciple in
the church. Haemeq made sexual advances towards him. He was
in a very uncomfortable position, being “hit on” by the
leaders wife. This was happening during the time when the
morning and evening sacrifices were being established and
taught about on daily basis. For those of you who remember
or have heard those teachings since then, you can appreciate
the enormity of what went on between Yadutan and Ha-emeq.
There were times when she would grab him by the belt loop or
hold his hand while they were walking. There were times when
they were traveling on their bus that she would slip her
hands under his bed covers and hold his hand at night. One
night she approached himfrom behind on the beach and wrapped
her arms around him in an embrace. Eventually he gave in to
the did not have intercourse, or oral sex, but they did
everything else. They would passionately kiss, they would be
stripped down to their underwear, lying on top of one
another. The would masturbate one another. They would go to
the newly established gatherings unclean, minutes after
being together. She would hold his hand during breaking of
bread. They would have had intercourse but at one point or
another one of them would stop the other. I understand that
this is not pleasant or even dignified to have to read these
things, but I don’t know any other way of getting my point
across.. I have sat in many meetings judging people for
doing much less than what these two people participated in.
I have seen families torn apart because of judgments that
have come from Yoneq over youth who have held hands or
kissed. I have heard and taught on the utter wickedness of
going to breaking of bread and minchot over and over again
with unconfessed sin much less
serious in nature than what I speak of today. Yadutan is
not “blaming” haemeq as being the only guilty one for
what occurred, but he was terribly confused and upset in his
conscience about what they had fallen into. He encouraged
her to stop on several occasions but she did not want to,
and so they continued in their weakness. THIS CONTINUED FOR
A YEAR OR SO until Yoneq and Haemeq left brazil. At this
point Yadutan was able to clear his head and wrote Haemeq
telling her that they must confess and repent and get
forgiven no matter the cost. He told her she must expose it
to Yoneq or he would have to do it! .Haemeq wrote back
saying it was ok, all was forgiven. Yadutan continued under
the impression Haemeq had exposed herself..
Years later, it is uncovered that Haemeq had NEVER TOLD THE
TRUTH. She has continued on in her role judging and
mentoring, representing God on the earth, and whatever else
you might describe her role to be, with a very very bad
conscience the whole time.
When Yadutan began to see that the tribes were “falling
apart” on so many levels , he began to consider the
problems , why they never get fixed and the hypocrisy that
had risen to the sky.
He called for a meeting with Yoneq. He confessed to his own
wife what had happened before they had met, and they went to
Hiddenite to have the big meeting. When he got there he was
met with what he felt was an attempt to sweep it all under
the rug . Yoneq said that he had just recently learned about
the whole matter. He questioned them both concerning what
had happened and then he forgave them both, and he told them
that our Father forgave them! That’s it! Yadutan wondered
why there was no body meeting , discipline, nothing! How
could a husband judge his own wife like this with no
counsel? Others had been sent away for years , forced to
marry, or worse, over less! Should Yacob and qetsiayah know
about this, after suffering over what their daughters went
through for committing sins of a far less serious nature?
Should Hur know about how haemeq was judged for 14 YEARS of
deceit after seeing his boys judged for sins far less
serious. The list could go on
for quite some time. Should all those cooks meetings be
disregarded because ha emeq was “in the flesh” when she
Think about it…. And what about Yoneq’s response? How
many times I have sat and waited to hear from Yoneq
concerning our Father’s judgment for someone, whether they
should be sent away from the body or not. And this was only
after several kahals and fact finding meetings. All the
while, those who committed the sins are being held in
He was asked time and again to be discreet and just forgive
and “have wisdom and conceal the matter” Scriptures were
sent to him encouraging him to keep the matter to himself.
Yadutan was unable to obtain a good conscience this way and
all his experience in the tribes was now in doubt for him
and his wife. Even his own position seemed fraudulent to him
as he felt “bought” so to speak. He insisted more men be
brought in and so Yoneq agreed and told Nahaliel and Nun.
After expressing their grave concern with the seriousness of
the matter, investigating, and finding the whole story to be
exactly true as Yadutan had described in lurid detail, they
both began a letter writing campaign to get Yadutan to just
“move on” in the tribes. Yadutan was increasingly
distressed by these “elders” inability to grasp the
gravity of this hypocrisy. He wrote to them about “the
emperors new clothes”, and the MEN BEHIND THE EMPEROR and
the foundations of
the community (teachings, tribes, minchahs) being formed
all by those who were living a lie while harshly judging
others for their lack of purity. He does not feel innocent
of all this himself, but when he tried to do the right thing,
he saw that it wasn’t really in the hearts of the
leaders to deal fairly with the truth but to hide it in
order to continue their charade. I have had a lot to do with
many people joining or remaining in the tribes. I feel for
conscience sake, they are all deserving of the truth and
deserve to know ALL the information that I now have and also
to know why Yadutan and his wife had to leave.
This is just a very brief version of a much deeper and more
involved story. Please everyone know that Yadutan and his
wife Emunah loved and gave their lives to the building of
the community, as did my wife and I, but I can not stand by
while my friends unwittingly go on trusting their lives,
believing that they are building on something solid. My
faith has been undermined by the reality of what the twelve
tribes has really become! I did not easily come to these
decisions. It has been very painful for everyone involved
and I know for a fact that Yadutan has no joy in having to
live with this. BUT NEVER THE LESS IT IS THE TRUTH. People
can try and contact him if they need to know or verify
anything. There are those who will say this is a lie from
people who listen to liars, but there pages and pages and
pages of emails and letters concerning this matter. There
are those who won’t care anyways and will continue on in
the community. This letter isn’t for
those people. This letter is for the people who still care
about the truth.. For those who have been on the edge, and
even for those who haven’t. It’s a wake up call to our
friends in the Twelve Tribes.

I hope this letter gives some closure to the many
ex-members who left and still suffer from guilt of leaving.
And also those who were sent away, cut-off or punished for
things that are trifling compared to adultery and
fornication amongst the HOLY!!! Or those who after dieing in
the tribes were judge unworthy of the cloud of witnesses and
sentenced to the first death!"

nabashalam said...

News Flash!

The "Ha Emeq Affair" is judged in Florida...

My sources have told me that the elders gathered in Fl. to judge the case of Ha Emeq's sin of molestation of a young single disciple.

"He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's (and women's) hearts."

After much deliberation the elders decided what they were going to do about Ha Emeqs sins. NOTHING! That's right! Did you expect anything else? You know they have swept molestations under the rug before...

They judged that the discipline would be on Ha Emeq and the Tribes to suffer the shame of the Nations from the exposure of the acts of filth.


They put the egg on the faces of the innocent!

Now you must realize that this was not just one indiscretion! One moment of weakness! It was an ongoing, calculated clandestine tryst! Ha Emeq schemed and snuck around fulfilling her carnal lust with a young impressionable youth who was manipulated and intimidated by the most powerful woman in the Tribes!

And at the same time that she was sexually molesting this young man she was giving teachings and directions to wives and single sisters, supposedly under the direction of the "Holy Spirit", on what type of panties to wear. White cotton briefs and not bikini style or colored panties, in order to stay "pure" for Yahshua!

Now it has come to my attention that many couples, families and others have left due to this revelation. Also that many where waiting for the outcome of this judgment before they made a decision to stay or leave.

I hope that many eyes are opened to the spiritual delusion and trap that Yoneq has propagated and enslaved sincere souls in who were just groping, searching for "God" and His directions in order to serve Him.

I pray that those who leave find peace in their decision and the strength to make that decision. I also pray they find tangible help to make the transition of "living in the world". It will be tough being that they haven't had the experience of making a decision for themselves in a long time.

I know how Bob Pardon is constantly demonized in the Tribes but the Gods honest truth is that Bob and his wife Judy are some of the most caring and loving people you would ever want to meet. They will help anyone wanting to leave and provide a place of healing and transition.

It is posted on their site ...

What is the Cost?
The approximate operating cost for each MeadowHaven resident is thousands per month. This includes room, board, and all counseling and social services. MeadowHaven does not charge a fee, and no one is denied participation in the program on financial grounds. However, because being responsible for ones own healing process is therapeutic, it is expected that each resident will make a determined effort to offset the costs of his or her stay. This can be accomplished by helping to maintain the facility, acquiring donations from individual sources, contributing from part-time work during residency, or through scholarships, when available.

Also... Anyone who wants to write me or call, please feel free...

All communications will be held in the strictest of confidentiality.

Sincerely, David Pike

ph# 608-257-1114

Anonymous said...

I didn't hear everything about the situation until now, I guess that it seems pretty severe. It seems however that you really took on what you heard and very quickly, too. I personally would not be so quick to judge especially considering that I was not there to see the situation nor hear the judgment given. I here and now have just made seven ounces of pure poison, does this make me a murderer, no, not unless I encourage others to drink it.(actually I was making a salve) I do not know this Yadutan, but you have obviously drank his poison. All I can say is, even if the accusation is true and the judgment nil, there may be a cause and a reason for this. If it is true and Yadutan has a bad conscience I can see why he left. Even if it is true, why slander the community, if he had a bad conscience and also the love of our Master for our brothers he would have concealed this issue for the sake of peace and perhaps an eventual resolve. It seems to me true or not, he did not have the love of our Master. Ha'emeq I have met, and I know for a fact that if she has a bad conscience about something she usually deals with it before she has a really bad conscience. I know that, even if true, she would take responsibility for her actions. The fact that Yadutan held on to this thing for 14 years creates some room for discrepancy, don't you think? Why would a man doing the work of our Father not speak up sooner if he thought something was wrong, you'd think it would have been squeezed from him long before now! Hmmm, curious. Was Yadutan really doing our Fathers work? Maybe. But, it might seem likely that he had just been going along as long as things suited him, all the while holding poison in his heart against a woman he has claimed to love for 14 years. I really don't know though, it may have been that the unresolved issue slowly ate at his conscience for 14 years all the while he went to these new gatherings and things claiming that he was pure. Why did he hold back? Ha'emeq apparently must have dealt with her conscience a long time ago, because as far as I've seen she holds nothing back. If the brothers did nothing, perhaps it was because they were satisfied that the problem was already dealt with, or maybe they decided that the accusation unfounded and were content to just let the liars and scoffers talk amongst themselves. Of course, I wasn't there and I don't know, but I wouldn't be so quick to think that a people who have done so much to prevent negative relationships from happening would leave a situation like this with undue recourse.

Anonymous said...

it seems nabashalam that your mouth is open wide to swallow the dregs of this poorly concocted batch of tea.

nabashalam said...

It sounds as if YOUR the one who is drinking the kool aide dude!

Both Elahav and Yadutan were highly respected and trusted elders in the Tribes and have done nothing to lose that respect. Actually they deserve more and not the slanderous crap you are piling on them!

Your split tongue is just like something you would hear wagging at one of their kahols!

You should go back because they are looking for someone like you for a mouthpiece instead of the two men who finally found the courage to point out that "The Emperor is naked!".

Anonymous said...

sorry i didn't realize i was speaking with a fool, guess i'll stop now.

nabashalam said...

then stop talking to yourself!!!!

Anonymous said...

What does it mean to suffer the shame of the nations? And what standing does one have before such a decree is made upon them?

"They judged that the discipline would be on Ha Emeq and the Tribes to suffer the shame of the Nations from the exposure of the acts of filth."


nabashalam said...


Here's what someone on the ex-TT Threshing Floor discussion group wrote....

"Here is my best guess.
Because the behavior of the people involved was less than pure in a way that should never have come about, then, if the nations judge the 12 tribes in this matter, then the tribes have to bear it. That is, if the nations pronounce shame on the tribes for this action of "filth", then they (12 tribes) have to take it. It is their discipline. They are to make no defense or take any moral high road (on this issue).
The standing of the individual does not change, since the discipline is being taken by the edah. Thus, Ha'Emeq's position would not change. She only bears the burden of having brought shame on the nation of Israel."

I concur with what he wrote...

nabashalam said...

I agree with the above comment but the reasoning is full of holes...

If this is what they think then what about all the other offenses TT members have been judged on? What about the shame of harboring a pedophile or even just the fact that "one of theirs" molested their own children? Does this not incur the shame and judgment of the Nations?

What about the many instances where the Tribes reneged on financial promises and obligations? There have been several occasions when the Tribes borrowed money and did not pay them back in a timely manner and not because they didn't have the money but that they felt there were more pressing financial needs like Yoneq wanting another piece of property or for a pet project of his.

"The standing of the individual does not change, since the discipline is being taken by the edah."

And if this is so, why is this not practiced with all the disciples? Who decides whether the "edah" is going to take the hit or the lowly disciple? Why does adultery and fornication get a "slap on the wrist" and then when some brothers teenager sneaks a kiss out back of the barn gets "sent away" and possibly the parent with them? Or worse yet, the youth is railroaded into a marriage to cover their "horrendous" sin and rebellion.

Anonymous said...

"Why does adultery and fornication get a "slap on the wrist" and then when some brothers teenager sneaks a kiss out back of the barn gets "sent away" and possibly the parent with them? Or worse yet, the youth is railroaded into a marriage to cover their "horrendous" sin and rebellion".

One might tend to think that these infractions might be overlooked because the chance of a pregnancy occuring, whether kosher or not,would be favorable to the expansion of the community. This would be why a decision of a forced marriage resulting from youthful indescretions may be decided upon. If a marriage of the ones caught in the act of undue familiarity were not considered to be best for the furtherance of multiplying the Tribe,then they are seperated by the "sending away" maybe?. Sounds a bit like "Justice is fallen in the streets".


nabashalam said...

"act of undue familiarity"? What a nice way of saying "bumping uglies"!

panterus said...

the reason why sometimes young men get sent away is because they were unwilling to repent for their actions, when it is in them to repent they are free to come back, but either way there is a extended period of seperation from the girl they convinced to kiss them just for the sake of clearing the air between them so they both can come to repentance. i tell you the truth of a situation, yet again, but again i will also tell you unless you really want to be one of them it really is none of you concern.

Gabriel said...

not our concern, panterus? Wrong: it IS the concern of any good citizen of the world as to how others are being treated in areas where information does not flow freely outward or inward, and the people within (in this case, CHILDREN) may not have chosen - and given a choice, might not choose - the way they are forced to live. That's as true in Iran as it is in any TT compound.

But I gained great amusement from your phrase, "...either way there is a extended period of seperation from the girl they convinced to kiss them ...", so thank you for my laugh for the morning. The whole "girl had to be convinced" is quite rich in a thread that's about a woman who molested a boy.

nabashalam said...

Oh soooo rich! rotf...

Unknown said...

@Panterus, I would really like to know who you really are?

nabashalam said...

I think Panterus is actually Ha'Emeq(Marsha Ann Duvall)

Unknown said...

Wow, the haemeq affair!!! I get the feeling that her judgement was the same or less as stealing a pack of bologne from the grocery store..I remember the harsh judgements I got from having UNBELIEF. I am guessing I was suppposed to believe in YAHSHUA, being the body. Basing this on what haemeq was doing, YAHSHUA was committing adultery!! And on top of that, I was asked to have unquestioned obedience to people like her and all the people that looked up to her... My question for Yoneq, is, being a man of extreme insight and the most sensitivity to God, could you not see of sense in your intellect that your wife was in darkness? In my mind, this is just one of the things that everyone found out, how much other things happened that no one found out about..That is my viewpoint when I was a member, people preaching to me about righteousness and purity, and when the people aren't looking, go and flesh out. My intention here is not to tear down the community, but to say it like it is, KEEPING IT REAL. People had no problem telling me how wrong I was when I didn't adhere to their authority.. This is the damaging aspect I am talking about..I could make a list of things that I really like, if not love about the community, but that is not the issue. The issue is what is really going on there, not just what people say..On the deep level in my soul, I felt that the truth of what was happening to my spiritual evoltion was different from what I was being told to think about my reality..I think that I was trying to be as real as possible and that is a problem for a situation like that...Anyway for the twelve years I have been out, I can say that my life has been REAL, when I was in the community, I was only being led by my mental thoughts of what other people told me to think, all the while my actual soul, and voice of my inner self, being silenced, zombie-style, robot soul...I came off Grateful Dead tour in 95, and didnt claim to know anything about religion, I trusted them to show me the way, maybe thats how I found out sooner than later, what that place is truly all about... I flle I was very sincere, and every 3 years or so, think about going back. But one things for sure that its just the same thing happening there... Fundamentally, It is all about whether or not you are willing to submit to their authority, and I can say once your in so deep, it is mentally impossible to recover, unless you leave...Well, I am thankful I can vent on here, and welcome anyones comments in the community or out, I have always been looking to have a discussion with others about the community, and the only people I had were poeple in the community, which is useless to me, besides hearing how I am introverted, have religious spirit, etc...Anyway thanks all for listening, Brett Scott.........PS I found a whole role of pictures from the Providence 96 wedding, nice to see people I used to know, etc....thats all for now.

nabashalam said...

hey Brett... did you have dreadlocks when you came in and then cut them off?

Unknown said...

no, I started my first crop(of dreadlocks), only months before I joined, they were able to be combed out.

Jeff said...

You should be ashamed of yourself Keli. Are you an "Apostolic Worker"? one of the sheep told me the "apostolic workers" are like an Apostle (Yoneq), they are like GOD!

Your cartoon is awful.

How about a cartoon about Ha'emeq violating her marriage vows to Apostle Yoneq. She didn't have to leave the community! Talk about a double-standard in the Tribes. Wow.

Such bad fruit all over the place...

Jeff said...

I got really tired of Ne'ehman's sarcasm all the time, and he passed that on in full to his favored son Nehemiah. You need to repent to Our Father Ne'ehman for your continued sarcasm that tore a community down and made people feel worthless that trusted you.

For my German Speaking Visitors

Follow this link to review a presentation made by Leipzig student Florian Böhnhardt.

Boehnhardt Zwoelf Staemme 2007

For my French Speaking Visitors

Interesting news article concerning the Sus House (castle) and controversy in France with the Twelve Tribes.

Entre bric à brac et vie de château, les drôles d'apôtres de l'Ordre Apostolique... (Tabitha's Place)

Click on the following link to get a wealth of information from an Anti-Cult Site in France

News Reel-1 on Tabitha's Place

News Reel-2 on Tabitha's Place

Place a checkmark beside all items that characterize the group in question. If you check many of these items, and particularly if you check most of them, you might consider examining the group more closely.

The above check list comes from Dr. Michael Langone, editor of Cultic Studies Journal, and often characterize manipulative groups. Dr. Langone suggest prospective recruits and family members compare these statements to the group. If one or more of these apply to your group you may have a cause for concern. I say, if all apply as in the case of the Twelve Tribes, you should repent (turn 180 degrees) and run.

Please Leave a Review

Yoneq 2004

I dedicate this song to Yoneq and the elders of the TT

Elbert Eugene Spriggs

Ok - This one is a little angry, but therapeutic just the same

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